The Coronavirus and the shutdown…..and re-starting the economy

The coronavirus and the shutdown are cause and reaction.

Not cause and effect.

The deep state medical ‘experts’ none of whom see patients clinically or manage a practice all decided that the only solution to a viral epidemic was the 100 percent one like they would in a lab test. Problem is society is not a lab and you do not have control over things like the spread of the virus nor did they have any factual information as to how the virus affected the body and how to fight it.

No bother, just shut down society. Then they had time to ‘think’ about a response. Meanwhile our unemployment numbers are catastrophic and despite the shutdown the virus spread like wildfire.

Sometimes in life we are presented with a scenario where due to our own circumstances we have the luxury that we can stop and wait and then make a choice as to what to do. In the case of coronavirus, we were ordered to shutdown without respect to our personal circumstances or the impact such an order would have. The negative fruit of this decision by the feds and the states will take years to calculate.

Fact is the virus cannot be contained. There is no cure. There is no preventative. Even several months into this, we are no closer to any of these as far as having answers. The shut down may have delayed the spread but it will spread nonetheless.

There are other ways to slow the spread that would have had a much smaller impact on the economy. Remember the 70’s and the gas crisis. Alternate days for gas spread people out and reduced the demand per day which is akin to reducing the spread of a virus.

Imagine if we went to a 3 day and 3 day work schedule. Split your employees into two groups. Half work one day, the other the next and they alternate. The work week will be 6 days instead of 5. Change the length of the work day to 12 hours and all of them are earning close to their normal 40 hours a week and while productivity would suffer it should still be close to what it was beforehand.

It follows that with half at work and half at home, the number of people shopping at any given time is about half of normal. Further schools could have done something similar splitting classes in two and extend the school day to maybe 9 hours a day instead of 12.

There were ways to slow the spread without pulling the plug on the economy. Too bad Trump listened to the scientists and did not demand factual data analysis before acting. It could have saved a lot of businesses that will not survive this epidemic.

The idea of a 6 day week and splitting the work force is a viable solution to getting things going again including schools.  We still need to protect 24/7 those at risk and obviously these people would still be ‘shutdown’ or isolated from society until we have some answers to what to do for them in regards to the virus.

Where’s the big Wave??????

Here we are hunkered down under government orders waiting out this Coronavirus epidemic.  It has been long enough that people are getting impatient.  After all, we were told to expect to see rising death tolls and people getting morbidly sick all over the country.   We were told this shut down is for our own good and for our health.  We were told that in order to be safe we need to wear masks in public even though most all masks people are wearing are not virus proof.  We took this all in good faith as Americans and have been trying to cooperate.  Trying to be community minded.

Well, Where is it?  You know, the massive wave of death and misery that was supposed to be what we are all hiding at home from.  Where is this wave of bad infections and overloaded hospitals?  From where I sit, I see layoffs at health care facilities and actual hospitalization rates that are infinitesimal as compared to the predictions?

Despite the shut downs and the stay at home orders people are still out and about.  Yet, the epidemic has not developed as was predicted.  Not at all.

So, I ask again to Dr. Fauci and Birx….Where the hell is my wave?????

Comrade DeBlasio and Emperor Cuomo….Where the hell is my wave?????

What is the point (outside of the obvious political impact on Trump) that this shut down is supposed to accomplish?  There is anecdotal instances of the spread of the virus DESPITE THE SHUT DOWNS along with scientific studies indicating that the virus has spread far more than anyone had anticipated except that almost everyone who has tested positive for the virus never got sick and recovered without even knowing they had it.  Numbers indicate that the virus is 1/50th as deadly as they thought; perhaps even less lethal.  Amazing.  And this virus was supposed to be deadly.  Apparently not nearly as fatal as the precious ‘models’ predicted.

This shut down has to end.  The shutdown is predicated on bad modeling and bad statistics and as such the reasoning for the shut down is invalid.

It will be peasants carrying the equivalent of pitchforks and torches if this goes on much longer.  Real people are losing their livelihoods as a result of their not being able to run their small businesses.  They do not have deep pockets and the reserves and equity to cover their losses during the shutdown and even when things start up again, they will not just immediately bounce back.  What took them years and years to create may be gone forever and will take years to replace.

Any SBA loans to cover payroll will not help the business owner who still has operating debts to deal with for physical overhead and maintenance.  Just like car insurance, these keep going on even if the business is not actually operating.  There are no programs that are helping with this type of losses.

And yet, they are giving money to massive corporations and over endowed ivy league colleges and universities….It pays to have politicians and bureaucrats in your pockets if you can afford it I guess.

President Trump is right to want to get back to business as usual.  He is being universally condemned for advocating this by the media and liberal pin heads.  They, these opposition folks, have their interests arranged in such a way that they are not hurt by the shutdown and the farther this nation falls down the sewer hole, the better it is for them as far as getting more power and control over everything.

Enough is enough.  Time to work.  Time to be free Americans and tell these power hungry wannabe dictators to go to hell.

Coronavirus Quarantine…Enough is ENOUGH!!!

We are all hunkered down in a government mandated shutdown and to what end I ask?

They say, by avoiding contact we can protect ourselves from the virus.

Do you really believe that?  Can you avoid the common cold?  How about the seasonal flu?  How about historical virus pandemics like Polio?

If we were to isolate every sufferer of the virus from society, well , then we could avoid catching the virus ourselves.  We are not doing that.  We are sending healthy people in to care for people sick with the virus and despite full masks, gloves, and other protective wear and precautions, these healthcare workers are getting the virus.  What can we learn from this?

For one, like all viral epidemics, they are almost impossible to stop once they have a foot hold in the community.  For two, as long as we live in a community and not as isolated islands of settlement who do not interact, this virus will spread regardless of our best intentions.

What does this say about the government mandated shut downs?  Well, the government accomplished one thing.  They slowed the spread.  They did not stop it.  Even locations hundreds of miles from the original hot spots ended up with people who had the virus.  How?  Viruses are the toughest things to kill in our biosphere.  Not only that, they can spread in innumerable ways which short of complete isolation, cannot be stopped.

Had Cuomo ‘Quarantined NYC’ when the virus first was detected it might have been contained at least for a while.  Same is true in Washington state where the initial hot spot was a nursing home.  What happened was that the ‘smartest doctors’ in the land made recommendations that may have slowed the viral spread but the government was unable to contain it.  Despite all of our cowering at home, hoarding toilet paper and foods, this virus has spread far and wide.  This was unavoidable.

The facts are that pretty much all of us who have not gone to extreme precautions to protect ourselves such as gloves and masks and good sanitary hygiene as well as complete isolation from society;  well, we have been exposed to the virus already.  Now, since testing is done only on a symptomatic basis, most of us will never have this confirmed nor will we ever have any serious symptoms resulting from our exposure.  Just as most all people are exposed to the seasonal flu, we develop our own immunity to the virus and are never the wiser as far as if or when we got it and when we defeated it within our bodies.

Now, as this applies to society, I do believe it is time to return to some semblance of normalcy.  Those of us who are healthy and not at risk should return to work and even the schools should open (I know many parents will celebrate this) and get back to a normal life.

Those at risk should continue their ‘shut down’ behaviors and families with members at risk must act in responsible ways to protect their loved ones who need protection.  This may mean that grandma may not see the grand kids for a while.  This may mean that a parent who has an immune deficiency will have to isolate from the rest of the family.  Same goes for any children who are similarly affected.

It would be far better for the government to act to protect those at risk, than to act to isolate an entire population.  It is cheaper and easier and will be far more successful to isolate the 1/4 of a percent of our population that the virus poses a real health danger to than to do anything else.  We can protect a small group.  We can isolate them if need be at least until the ability of the virus to spread in society wanes or we develop a vaccine.

Lastly, what happened to personal choice?  Personal Liberty?  If we were to apply the same logic to society we are using at present in dealing with this virus sports as we know them would end due to risk of injury.  Driving would stop for the same reason.  So would drinking or any other recreational activity (you can fill in the blank here ____ ) that has as one of its potential outcomes an injury or death.  We would be ‘SHUT DOWN’ for our own good and safety but to what end?

When government presumes to reduce our choices of activities it enters into totalitarianism and this is an anathema to our founding and our way of life as Americans.  End the dictatorships in DC and the states.  Let government provide HELP to people who need it to be safe instead of providing martial law type restrictions on society.  It would be a far more ‘American’ way to react to this current viral epidemic.

The strength of our nation is not supposed to be in the government.  It is suppose to be bestowed on the people and their own pursuits for liberty and happiness.  We need to do everything we can to restore the strength of our nation and end this pointless shut down.  The experts cannot tell us when this will end and look to literally years of isolation and the new coined term of the realm ‘Social Distancing’ which is nothing more than common sense.  People have known enough to avoid hazards for thousands of years.  A reminder to avoid sick people is common sense but cannot be a law.

It is time to stand up to the tyrannical leaders who insist we hide at home ‘for our own good’.  Let Americans choose for themselves.  No doubt there will be more cases of Coronavirus but I must tell you that this will happen regardless of our being shut down.  Like the wind that blows, viruses spread.  Better to live free and unafraid than to cower in fear hoping the government can protect us.

Generalissimo Cuomo; treat the Metro NYers first. Send them upstate….

Today’s edict from Generalissimo Cuomo is that he wants to send a large number of his Covid19 sick patients upstate because our hospitals upstate belong to him and his peeps.  Calling it one ‘Big Network’ Cuomo ignores the fact that hospitals are sized to regional needs and local hospitals upstate are designed to just barely meet the needs of the immediate community.  By lodging his peeps from the city he takes rooms away from the local communities.

Upstate at present does not have a big problem with Covid19 and while we have quite a few cases we are able to care for them within our upstate network.  Downstate otherwise known as the greater NYC area has a big problem with Covid19.  My question is what is going to happen if they ship hundreds of Covid19 infected patients upstate?

Well, first our beds in our hospitals will fill up with seriously ill people who will tax our resources in the process.  Further, the risk of further spread of Covid19 by the introduction of new cases and thereby exposing more people to the virus is inevitable.  Either by direct contact or contact via contaminated surfaces along with the personnel who treat these patients all becoming potential sources of introduction of this virus into communities where the virus has not been as of yet.   What happened to staying at home and keeping the virus from spreading?  What is the point of shutting down our economy if the virus will simply be shipped here?

Cuomo wants to pretend we are all this big happy family here in NY but the truth be known, we upstate folks are quite sick of subsidizing NYC and its surrounds and dealing with legislation that we have no control over due to population growth within the NYC area (sanctuary city) and population decline upstate due to excessive taxes.

We already provide water and power to the NYC area along with having ‘green-energy’ projects rammed down our throats by state officials who ignore communities who do not want them.  Our lands are governed by state agencies in some areas where we literally cannot develop lands that have been held for generations by the same family due to greenie weenie environmental restrictions that favor gentrification of vacation and recreation areas over local business development.  Large areas of upstate NY are reserved and classified wilderness that were commercial lands 50 years ago.

People who live upstate do not agree with Cuomo and those of us who express conservative views were told rather rudely to leave back in 2014 when Cuomo and his fellow democrats (dictators) passed a totally unnecessary and pointless SAFE Act.  This onerous set of regulations has had no effect other than making normal people criminals by changing established gun laws that had existed for 75 years.  Our taxes go up either by the state or by paying local taxes that have risen due to unfunded mandates from the state.  This is a never ending process and yet again, the budget process plays out without any input from upstate representatives at all.

Generalissimo Cuomo, I will tell you that do not send any more refugees, either illegals, welfare dependent, or Covid19 patients up to our area.  You are not a dictator.  You are not even remotely as charismatic or as eloquent as your father and I would strongly suggest you stop trying to build a legacy because your only achievement in your years as governor are deficit ridden budgets and a series of regulatory actions that are despised by the majority of the people who live outside your personal fiefdom of NYC and the suburbs surrounding it.  We have had enough of your big mouth and your pompous actions.

 

The Gauntlet that is Coronavirus

Face it folks, we are facing a peril that permeates our communities and citizenry.  It is invisible and unstoppable anywhere but in closed sterile quarters. We can practice excessive hygiene and scrub our hands until they bleed and it still is there.  We can wear masks and self isolate and it is still there.  As long as the virus can find a host it can propagate.

How do you stop an infectious disease?  You immunize for it or you experience it and build your own immunity.  Either way, it is impossible to eradicate a virus just as it is impossible to get rid of the common cold.

The only way to get past this epidemic is to go through it.  No amount of isolation, shut down, or sanitizing will stop this virus.  The only way it is stopped is when the host organisms start killing it.  This is immunity.  In a nation this is Community Immunity.

America would be better off heading straight into this storm.  Here we are shut down hunkered in our houses hoarding toilet paper and food acting as if we can just wait this our longer than our neighbors we will be ok.  Sorry, no, you will experience this virus one way or another.  It does not go away because you are hiding.

So, what to do?  Protect the elderly.  Protect the weak.  Treat the sick.  The rest of us will have to face the gauntlet.  That unavoidable path through danger and possible discomfort in order for the majority of us to gain the ability to kill the virus.  This is the only way forward until a vaccine is developed and the shortest time period for that is so long that our economy will never recover if we continue to play hide and seek with the virus.

There is a reason why the Swine flu epidemic of 2009 went away.  Same with H1N1 in 2015.  The reason is not inoculations of vaccines.  It was that the masses all experienced the viruses and got better each becoming a pandemic virus killing machine.  Every citizen who recovered from the virus became a death knell to the virus killing every molecule that came their way with the anti-bodies they naturally built up in their bloodstreams.  We need to do the same now.

Enough hand wringing and panic about the Coronavirus.  Lets use our greatest asset we have to defeat it.  Our healthy American people.

Coronavirus, who is actually afraid?

I just spent a few minutes with my son who is a manager of a local retail store.  He has about 10 employees.  His company has ordered them to shut down as of Tomorrow per the commands of Cuomo the ‘Magnificient’ Generalissimo of New York State.

His staff run in ages from 21 to 63.  Guess who is ‘scared’ of the Coronavirus?????

The Generation ‘Z’ or late Millenial the 21 year old.  She is literally in a panic about the virus.

The older staffers some of whom are at risk due to respiratory issues basically are unimpressed with the ‘epidemic’ and would rather keep working.

I am quite sure the same is true of all of the same age same generation folks in the deep state in both Washington DC and in Albany.  They are panicked.  They are fearful for their lives.  They have never faced a real danger nor has their parents so the ‘We can make it together’ attitude does not exist in their mindsets.

I fear the long term effects of the shut down orders upon the economy will be very negative mostly in how the government will grow in size and power in response to this pseudo ‘disaster’ that in actuality does not exist.  Ultimately the fallout from this virus and its impact upon our nation will be the increased degree of control the government will have over us.

There will be deaths from this outbreak but as evidenced in China, it will not be catastrophic and will ultimately go down as being not as bad as the swine flu of 2009 and 2010.  The government will trumpet how their actions ‘Saved Us’ but if you understand how the liberals use disaster to their advantage.  Growing government ONLY BENEFITS the Liberal/socialists.

 

Coronavirus panic and shutdown

First, I am 65 and a member of the ‘Boomer’ Generation.

We are the generation that emerged from the Polio epidemic and the TB Epidemic as well. Either we, or our parents had endured the real threat that these posed to society. I knew people who had Polio and had survived TB. Despite the grave concerns that our parents and society had about these diseases we still went about our business and got things done.

Now we have a ‘Flu’ that is scaring the pants off of everyone that is younger than a Boomer. A FLU!! An upper respiratory infection that in a small percentage of the cases, the sufferer dies. 1% of those affected and practically no one under 50.

We were the children of the Greatest Generation. They faced death in the form of U-Boats, Nazi Armies, Kamikazes, the Japanese Army all of which would kill every American they faced if possible. That is a ‘FATAL scenario. The Flu is child’s play by comparison. Our parents faced TB and Polio along with WWII and Korea.

We have lost sight of what a true peril is. We allow the media and some politicians to instill a sense of dread and fear over a virus that is statistically no more deadly than our seasonal flu. We have shut down our society in the face of an enemy that cannot be seen, or defended against. This virus will infiltrate every crevice of our society in time. Shutting things down only delays the eventual spread of this virus but will do nothing to abate the numbers of people who become ill and the very tiny number who will die as a result.

It is time we started using our heads instead of panicking. We know how to avoid people who are ill as we have been doing for all of history. If someone seems very sick, keep your distance. The sick person should self isolate just as we always have done or at least what mature and responsible people have done.  Having the Coronavirus is not a death sentence nor is it probably going to be anything serious for practically all Americans.  Those older and who are susceptible to serious illness are more at risk and can act accordingly to protect themselves.  Society can help these individuals without shutting down.

While vaccines were found for Polio and TB was eradicated by antibiotics and testing, we cannot expect a vaccine for this flu in less than a year and a half. We will progress in how we treat it but that would happen regardless of how we react.

Closing schools eliminates the biggest breeding ground for the spread of disease and probably is a good idea for a couple of weeks. Everything else should stay open and operating with an increased attention paid to intercepting employees who are sick or showing signs of illness and isolating them appropriately. By shutting things down we will create an emergency in terms of shortfalls of supplies and cash crisis-es for families and small businesses and this will have long term consequences.

Cuomo’s ‘PAUSE’ will only create hardship and do nothing to curb the spread of the Coronavirus and the longer it goes on the more damage it will do to the economy of New York.  Intelligent behavior and not scare tactics from the government and press is the best course of action just as our Parents of the Greatest Generation had to do.  They knew the risks in their lives and went about their business and we, the Boomers, are the byproducts of their efforts and love.  We can do the same.

Big Brother is running things now.

Short of absolute travel bans we are under a sort of martial law. Currently, government has cancelled all schools and events gatherings and meeting places either directly or through influence and we are being told to maintain a ‘social distance’. There is an awful lot of fear circulating in society and the government is doing little to soothe the fears and in many ways is actually driving them.

We know that the statistics of this outbreak are not the kind of numbers that should strike fear in one’s heart. They are comparable to the flu or perhaps a half a percent worse. So far this year almost 20,000 people have died of the seasonal flu and we have seen little in the news or from the government to indicate that the seasonal flu is an epidemic. I wonder if the numbers for the Coronavirus will be as large.

I have had several thoughts about the origin of the Coronavirus. Some say it is a weaponized virus released by the Chinese government. I wonder if in fact it is, they did so just to gauge the reactions of the various major nations of the world to a relatively mild contagion. The Chinese are more than happy to see thousands of their citizens die as they are reaching an overpopulated condition in their society at this point so less people is good for them. So, release a bug into the world to see how well the other nations cope: Strategic planning and research experiment.

Maybe.

What if the government knows that this is not the equivalent of the Black Plague but they are playing it up to secure more controls in society and to encourage more people to ‘rely’ on the government. This would be to the advantage of the deep state and would serve to support any claims they make of their being ‘vital’ to national security and safety.

Maybe.

What if the government and all of the talking heads we are hearing are just stupid and so partisan that they will panic the people to score points against Trump and free enterprise in the form of private medical businesses of all types. If your goal is socialism then this is one way to improve your chances of getting our nation to that point.

Maybe.

While probably all of my thoughts hold some validity we out here in the wilds are left with the problem of surviving this epidemic and making sure our loved ones do as well. Protecting the elderly and those at risk is more important than hoarding water and toilet paper.

I firmly believe that we are powerless to stop the spread of this virus any more than we can stop the common cold or the seasonal flu. Our best bet is to create strategies to preserve and protect that which we know are most at risk; avoid panic and panic based activities such as hoarding and literally stopping all activities in society.

With the closures of schools and social institutions along with cancelling sports and delaying seasons from starting has put a big clamp on our economic engine that is our nation. While I could understand this when 9-11 happened for a week or so while we sorted out what had happened and what we needed to do in the short term, keeping these closures going more than a week or maybe two at the most is going to really slow down if not stop the economic boom we have been in. Perhaps this is the goal of these actions to be honest.   Until I see the statistics more than double as far as fatalities I am not going to consider this a life changing event and I am eager to get back to normal as quickly as possible for all our sake.

I doubt the numbers as a percentage of those who have the flu and die will change from the 1% that they have been. This is our barometer. Forget other nations and their stats as their health systems operate entirely differently than ours especially when it comes to the elderly and how much care they will receive if they fall ill. Focus on our numbers. Be grateful Trump shut down most of the entries into the nation for the short term.

Wait and watch.  Ole’ Remus advice of staying away from crowds applies now more than ever.

Coronavirus Hysteria…..it’s a real thing

I just heard that our Generalissimo CUOMO has decreed that all restaurants close effective tonight. There are bans on mass gatherings.  The schools are closed.  Retail stores are no longer 24/7 and there are some shortages depending on what you need and what people are hoarding.

My first question is ‘How does this eliminate Coronavirus?’  Yes, it slows down the spread but the virus remains.  It is not going anywhere and I am quite sure there are enough people who are carriers who will still be carriers a month from now to continue the spread.

Second:  ‘What if they MANDATE TESTING of all state residents here?’  Would you comply?  What would the state order you to do if you test positive?  What would they do to you if you refuse?

A virus is very difficult to kill.  They also mutate readily.  You can create a ‘Flu Vaccine’ to protect against a certain flu variety and before you can distribute this vaccine, the virus has mutated and is still rampant in society.  The fact is that even with annual ‘Flu Shots’ people still catch and many die from the seasonal flu.

I cannot be the only one who sees these facts and has these questions.  I am quite sure that any person who is in government knows these facts and realizes these issues will arise.  So, why is our Dictator Governor Cuomo (Silver spoon Andy) ordering the closure of literally hundreds of thousands of businesses and the closure of schools and the cancellation of mass events of all types?

If I had to guess I would say that the democrats are trying to tank the economy.  The media is generating mass hysteria.  The political leaders in democrat led states are ordering various actions all designed to suppress commerce and potentially bankrupt businesses if these go on long enough.  Add the parents who normally send their kids to school now having to find child care for their kids who will I am sure ultimately spend a significant portion of July in school this year if this carries on much longer.

The democrats have been on the hunt for a some sort of calamity to cripple the Trump administration and derail his re-election.  They could not gin up any dirt on him from their Russia hoax dossier and they have not found any chargeable offenses they can use to impeach him successfully.  Now, the only hope they have for 2020 is to tank the economy.  If the economy crashes, Trump will be vulnerable and they will do their damnedest to get Biden elected with a potential Hillary as a VP candidate dancing in the wings when Ole’ Gropey Joe’s mental faculties come into question.  This is their ONLY HOPE.

So, you can count on increasing levels of hysteria and additional executive orders from the likes of  Cuomo and his fellow democratic governors to further stifle commerce and push their senile candidate to the finish line.

Coronavirus; they Hype and the reality

I saw this on Facebook and it speaks very directly on what we really should be concerned with regarding the Coronavirus……

Regarding the Coronavirus. I will agree that it will spread throughout the nation and is a health hazard. However, I disagree as to how we as a nation should react.

Truth is that the vast majority of us could ‘catch’ the virus and survive the exposure with no effect. The statistics support this and the overall mortality rate is 1% of those who come down with the Influenza that this virus causes. This statistic is also the same as the mortality rate of the seasonal influenza outbreak we are experiencing already. So far this winter, 16,000 Americans have died as a result of this flu and yet, I see no panic in the streets regarding this ‘old’ flu bug.

At present, people are literally panicking at the prospect of actually being exposed and catching this influenza virus. People are buying and hoarding toilet paper, hand sanitizer and bottled water all in anticipation of a nationwide epidemic of death. The facts do not support this and yet our media and political leaders are doing nothing to present the facts as they are for the vast majority of people.

According to the statistics that have been recorded from the actual results of this virus, the bulk of the fatalities due to this viral infection are among those over 50 and some younger: the very small portion of society who are ‘at risk’ due to medical conditions they already have. The most recent death of a victim in NYC was an 80 year old emphysema sufferer who was one of those who came into contact with the lawyer or people he associated with that lives in Westchester county. She was hospitalized on the 3rd of March and died today. She was over 50 and at risk.

Our best efforts should not be to avoid contact with the virus as it will be pretty much impossible to do so. You cannot avoid the common cold; at least and live a normal life. This virus will spread through our communities regardless of shutting schools, cancelling sports events and banning mass gatherings. We should endeavor to protect our loved ones who are at risk. This cannot be done by these aforementioned methods.

We should not fear the virus but whether we do or do not come down with the flu we should do the following.

Stay away from the elderly. Nursing homes and loved ones.

Stay away from people who are medically at risk.

Stay at home if you are sick until you are cleared to go back out into society.

In time as the weather warms and the virus runs its course we will see the infection rates drop to nearly zero and then life can resume normal status.

Lastly, do not Fear this virus. It is from all appearances no more deadly than the seasonal flu we are already exposed to.

Buying all the toilet paper and sanitizer and bottled water and hoarding only causes hardships on those who may really need to gather extra supplies and isolate themselves from society because they are at risk.

Panic is an ugly behavior that is selfish and does nothing but make working together more difficult.